Thursday, January 08, 2009

Today's question

If the Israeli government pulled down its flag, discharged its soldiers, spiked all its guns and melted away, leaving the Palestinians in charge of the entire territory, what would happen to the Jews who live there?


Anonymous said...

Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall white South Africans asking the same question in the mid-80s regarding blacks.

Incidentally, not every member of Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Unfortunately, he was assassinatd in 2003.

Further to your post, I would note the following: the West Bank has been relatively calm, yet the occupation there continues. From the Palestinian perspective, the choice looks like this: behave well, and live in subjugation. Behave badly, and get 500 lb laser guided bombs dropped on you.

Unless there is a serious discussion regarding a binational state with territorial integrity and an end to the occupation, this is probably going to continue - to the short-term detriment of the Palestinians, but also to the long term detriment of the Israelies.

Ottawa Watch said...

Sorry, I don't buy it. There are too many Islamists in the region who believe it's their duty to kill Jews.

Hamas' control of Gaza has given those Islamists a southern base. The West Bank's moderate Palestinian leadership does not want Hamas fighters in the ares under its control. Why would they, when Hamas has murdered and crippled so many of Abbas' people in Gaza?

The ANC and Nelson Mandella can't be compared with Hamas and Hezbollah. It's completely ludicrous.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough then. Why pose the question in the first place then?

For what it's worth, i wasn't expecting Israel to "spike it's guns" or anything and I don't really know anyone that does, outside of fringe lunatics. There are Islamists who want to destroy Israel. The Israeli government also has expanded the number of settlements, fenced in the population, and continued what is, regardless of how you feel about Hamas, a military occupation. If Hamas's position justifies Israel's reaction, then what Palestinian reaction is justified by Israel's?

As for the ANC, they were labelled a terrorist organization and their attacks did kill civilians. The fact that the people they killed were people whose politics it was easy to dislike, doesn't change the dynamic of the conflict, nor does it make my statement any less valid. Terrorism, to my naive mind, means using violence to achieve political objectives. It doesn't say whether or not those objectives are nice.

On an aside, although I disagree with you here, I must say that I do really enjoy your blog.

Anonymous said...

I'm no blood-drinking fire breather, but I think we should look at history here: Every time Israel tries the peace route, it gets attacked (it has indeed abandoned settlements, signed peace accords, etc.). There is one simple reason for that: It is not in the interests of the Arab fanatics to have israel show its peaceful side for long. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the rest of the Arab world has not stepped forward to offer sanctuary to the Palestinians (beyond that failed attempt by Jordan a while back). South Africa was not under constant attack from all sides by fanatics devoted to wiping her out. Israel is.

Anonymous said...

"Every time Israel tries the peace route, it gets attacked (it has indeed abandoned settlements, signed peace accords, etc.). "

Sorry, but that's not correct. Individual settlements, in Gaza for example, have been dismantled to much media fanfare. However, overall settlement expansion has increased.

"Accordingly, the settler population of the West Bank and Gaza rose from about 115,000 when the agreements were signed, to approximately 210,000 by the 2002[11]. These figures do not include the Jerusalem area, where there was also extensive building"

Furthermore, why should it be Egypt or Jordan's responsibility to take the Palestinians? By that logic, one could argue that Israeli Jews should simply leave the Middle East and create a country in Germany.

"South Africa was not under constant attack from all sides by fanatics devoted to wiping her out. Israel is."

Actually, South Africa was surrounded on all sides by country's that were hostile to it, and, in fact, went to war. South Africa was so terrified for it's existence that they developed nuclear weapons (with Israeli help, it appears), which, to their credit they have destroyed.

Anonymous said...

Whatever happened to Pan Arabism which was the prevailing philosophy in the 1950's and 1960's and for a long time before?
Syria, Jordan and Iraq are all artificial creations of the World War 1 settlement.
As I said before, I can imagine what Europe what have looked like if the descendents of 13.5 million German refugees from the East had been interned in refugee camps for 60 years. And they were just part of the refugee problem which was essentially ended in Europe by 1955.
There are lots of granchildren of those refugees in everywehre in the world who could care less about the indigities of the past.
Anyway, no peaceable solution likely ever there.